Of the critical comments, a couple of themes that cropped up time after time, and so I want to take the time to respond to them: the first is the complaint that 'atheism is not secularism', and the second is that 'correlation is not causation'.
What is 'secularism'?
Some people complained that it was secularism, not atheism, that was associated with peaceful societies. Never mind the fact that the data I showed was for atheists, this argument is actually comes from a misunderstanding of what 'secularism' means. Because the US is a secular state, some people have got the idea that secularism means only the separation of church and state, like in the US. That's wrong.
Secularism can mean that, but it also has wider meaning, like the following:
- Miriam Webster: indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations
- Your Dictionary: worldly spirit, views, or the like; esp., a system of doctrines and practices that disregards or rejects any form of religious faith and worship
In social science, secularization refers to the gradual reduction in religious faith that occurred in the 20th century, especially in Europe, that has lead to a secular society.
Correlation is not causation
Just because secular societies are also more peaceful, doesn't mean that atheism is the cause, of course. That's a valid point, and I certainly didn't want to suggest that it is.
The irony is that I was showing just how correlation is not causation, a theme I talked about in an earlier post. Let me explain. There are a number of studies, mostly from the USA, which show that religious people score higher on a variety of prosocial attributes (they don't take drugs, they a dutiful, etc). But there's a simple reason for this. In a non-secular society, like the USA, dutiful people are religious. It's expected of them.
So the idea that we should spread religion to make the world a better place is based upon dodgy correlations. The analysis I posted helps to show that. Secular societies are, in many ways, better places to live than non-secular ones.
Now this doesn't mean that atheism makes for better people. Certainly not. We know that stressful situations make people more religious (and I have a couple of posts coming up on that topic). But it does suggest that better people tend to be atheists. That probably explains a large part of the correlation.
Well, thanks for sticking with this pretty self-indulgent post so far, but I wanted to clear up those couple of points. As a bonus, here's a couple more stats, treated in the same way as previously. The first is the percentage of people who say they are not religious, added to the numbers of outright atheists. The second is the percentage of people who say that god is unimportant in their lives (they rated 1 on a 10 point scale, so these folks hard hardcore atheists).Incidentally, the p numbers I put on the graphs are a measure of probability. You can think of it as the odds of getting that result by chance (statisticians: it's not quite that, I know!) I calculated them using a two-sample t-test assuming unequal variances.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
This work by Tom Rees is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 UK: England & Wales License.
Wow Tom.. 60,000 in one day.. that's amazing!!
ReplyDeleteFollowing up your blog from yesterday, my colleague Paul Bloom dealt with a similar issue in his essay for Slate "Does Religion Make You Nice?" (http://www.slate.com/id/2203614/) His point is that American atheists are a miserable bunch because they represent the minority group. He follows up PZ Myer's observation that "[S]cattered individuals who are excluded from communities do not receive the benefits of community, nor do they feel willing to contribute to the communities that exclude them."
Yeah, that's the power of Digg!
ReplyDeleteAbout American Atheists, Luke Galen thinks that there's a U-curve, and that committed atheists are quite happy. It's the folks that have doubts that have the problems. But then he surveyed members of Humanist groups, who are de facto members of a like-minded community. I blogged on his study here.
I will write down Secularism in my dictionary. I do not like religion, because they seggregate people. We are here to join, to stay together. We need to see what is similar. Thanks
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how many comments on that previous post blatantly didn't even read it to the end!
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't exactly a long post either! People are time poor, I guess :)
ReplyDeleteJust arrived; read both posts and all the comments. I wish I could say I was surprised at the content of many of the comments here, or at the lack of further comments here.
ReplyDeleteNow, I've got to get back to my raping and racism, 'cos apparently that's how we roll around here....