tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post8364760471888352614..comments2023-10-31T10:57:37.652+00:00Comments on Epiphenom: What's the connection between religion and homophobia?Epiphenomhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05420404206189437710noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-19163577248370217412013-08-08T22:45:21.174+01:002013-08-08T22:45:21.174+01:00It would also be interesting to see how religion f...It would also be interesting to see how religion factors into misogyny! I've been thinking that people use and have used religious backing to justify racism, misogyny, AND homophobia for quite a long time. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-88033230740558232252010-01-05T20:27:11.827+00:002010-01-05T20:27:11.827+00:00Interesting points, James. Re: environmentalism. I...Interesting points, James. Re: environmentalism. I wouldn't say that is characteristically liberal. Or rather, there are probably two kinds of environmentalism. One is the liberal sort, which is about increasing the power of locals over corporations. That changes the economics of development because the profits of third parties can't so ealiy overide non-profit motives.<br /><br />Then there's the 'conservative' side - conservation, essentially. Although this isn't so strong in the US, it is stronger in countries with a longer heritage, like the UK. This kind of environmentalism is, I think, linked to purity.Epiphenomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420404206189437710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-18270491878050825522010-01-04T17:22:39.725+00:002010-01-04T17:22:39.725+00:00If we had a time machine, a fascinating thing woul...If we had a time machine, a fascinating thing would be to travel to 1850s America, when many churches openly preached a pro-slavery message, and do the same survey and analysis. If a strong and independent correlation were found between religion and racism at that time -- akin to the correlation between religion and homophobia today -- that would strongly suggest that the correlation was due merely to adherence to idiosyncratic dogma. (Well, perhaps not purely idiosyncratic, since it may well be that the correlation between religiosity and authoritarianism helped drive racist and homophobic doctrines to begin with, before they became self-reinforcing... though now I'm speculating a bit <i>too</i> wildly I suppose...)<br /><br />Inversely, if a survey of 1850s America showed that any correlation between racism and religiosity was fully explained by other factors (authoritarianism, conservatism, etc.), that would imply that there was something special about the relationship between religiosity and homophobia above and beyond doctrinal compliance. I'd be very surprised if that were the case, but you never can tell...<br /><br />Re: Bjorn, I've heard Haidt's five points before and I think it's an interesting model, but the generalizations are way overboard, and perhaps a bit inaccurate. <br /><br />For instance, I would argue that a large fraction of self-identified liberals are also quite heavily influenced by the Purity point. Reality may have a well-known liberal bias, but that does not mean that everyone who is acting liberally is doing so for reality-based reasons -- and in fact, my experience has been that many people are motivated towards environmentalism for purity reasons. This does <i>not</i> undermine the legitimacy of the environmental movement; I am merely observing that the people I come into contact with on a day-to-day basis seem to be more motivated by, for example, whether pristine environment is being "polluted" (there's a purity code word for ya!) rather than the actual effects of said pollution.<br /><br />I saw an interview with the Dalai Lama, a major douchebag who happens to support many good causes, where he explicitly invoked purity to justify his admirable pro-environmentalist stance: "Keep the environment pure." That was his phrase.<br /><br />The only one of Haidt's points I think is uniquely conservative is Respect, but then again that's almost just another way to say "authoritarian". Haidt's five points are interesting, but I don't think they are hugely illuminating in regards to the difference between conservative and liberal thought.James Sweethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17212877636980569324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-20037669426844864122009-03-14T23:14:00.000+00:002009-03-14T23:14:00.000+00:00Nice articleNice articleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-47057919197761074592009-03-09T20:15:00.000+00:002009-03-09T20:15:00.000+00:00Yes, you're right of course. Almost every study in...Yes, you're right of course. Almost every study in religion is correlational - because it's difficult to randomly induce religion and then study the effects of that intervention. So that caveat applies to almost every study, and I have got lazy with making that point.<BR/><BR/>The reason for talking in cause and effect terms is simply the theoretical underpinnings. Which direction of causality is more likely?<BR/><BR/>Of course, it's very possible (probable, I would say) that causality works in both directions. People who are somewhat homophobic are attracted to religion, and this feeds and strengthens their homophobia. It's an intuitive idea, but fearsomely difficult to demonstrate objectively.<BR/><BR/>You would have to argue that individuals who have none of the demographic underpinnings of homophobia (not conservative, etc) but are still homophobic for some reason are thenEpiphenomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420404206189437710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-65358238252771891962009-03-09T16:17:00.000+00:002009-03-09T16:17:00.000+00:00Aren't these studies correlational? You use causat...Aren't these studies correlational? You use causative language quite a bit in the post. Perhaps that should be changed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-56739596840129951902009-03-09T06:22:00.000+00:002009-03-09T06:22:00.000+00:00read: Christopher West: Theology of the Body: A Bo...read: <BR/>Christopher West: <BR/>Theology of the Body: A Bold, Biblical Response to the Sexual Revolution<BR/>The Theology of the Body is a Biblical message that is intended for all Christians. This teaching, originally presented by John Paul II, draws on over 1000 scripture versus concerning God’s original plan for marriage & sexuality, and how an understanding of this plan gives meaning to our lives. In this talk given at an Evangelical church, Theology of the Body expert Christopher West delivers this life-changing message to an enthusiastic Protestant audience. Catholics and Protestants alike will benefit from this teaching as we strive to live out God’s plan for our lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-17552563957756516292009-03-08T22:57:00.000+00:002009-03-08T22:57:00.000+00:00Thanks Bjern ;) Hmm you may well be right. But if ...Thanks Bjern ;) Hmm you may well be right. But if loyalty+respect -> religiosity, and religiosity - > homophobia, then basically this is just another way that conservatism -> homophobia. But the stats seem to indicate that religion adds something above and beyond conservatism.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, they didn't actually factor out conservatism/liberalism into Haidt's types. The link between those and religiosity (and all the other associated traits) would be very interesting to see.Epiphenomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05420404206189437710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-34044989159002884152009-03-08T07:00:00.000+00:002009-03-08T07:00:00.000+00:00Oh and, Tom, you should check out Haidt, too. ;POh and, <B>Tom</B>, you should check out Haidt, too. ;PBjørn Østmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08859177313382114917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1051713021757781960.post-17711124281498645932009-03-08T06:57:00.000+00:002009-03-08T06:57:00.000+00:00Tim, you should look into Jonathan Haidt's five po...Tim, you should look into <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt" REL="nofollow">Jonathan Haidt's</A> five points of morality: care/harm, fairness, loyalty, respect, purity.<BR/><BR/>To summarize, liberals base they morality mainly on the first two, while conservatives do so on all five about equally.<BR/><BR/>My guess is that the underlying factor regarding religiosity and homophobia is conservatism. It seems plausible that the purity value leads to homophobia, and the loyalty and respect have to do with religiosity.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html" REL="nofollow">Haidt talk on TED</A>Bjørn Østmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08859177313382114917noreply@blogger.com